Paprec-Virbac 2 and Hugo Boss pacing each other in the North Atlantic trades
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
You are currently browsing the monthly archive for January 2008.
Effortless pace for Groupama 3 in the South Atlantic trades
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
A multihull and a new sailing school are to be officially launched at the Dinghy Sailing Show
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Skandia Team GBR are getting ready for the Laser World Championships next week
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Skandia Team GBR are getting ready for the Laser World Championships next week
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
PDF Documents
- BMW Oracle letter sent to Justice Cahn, on 29 January, replying to Alinghi’s submission
- BMW Oracle letter sent to Justice Cahn, on 29 January, replying to Alinghi’s submission
- Alinghi letter sent to Justice Cahn, on 30 January, replying to BMW Oracle’s previous letter
Just when it seemed that Monday, January 28 was the deadline for the two litigating parties to submit their documents in the NY Supreme Court, we have yet another two letters sent to Justice Cahn.
First, BMW Oracle sent Justice Cahn a letter on Tuesday, replying to Alinghi’s documents submitted on Monday. Then, on Wednesday, Alinghi replies to BMW Oracle’s reply by sending Justice Cahn another letter. Without going further into legal details, both letters focus once again on whether BMW Oracle’s challenge is valid.
Both letters are accessible through the box at the top of this article.
We also publish, albeit belatedly, an interview Tom Ehman gave NZ Sport Radio last week, shortly after the hearing at the NY Supreme Court. Unfortunately, we only got the MP3 file of the radio interview yesterday. GGYC’s spokesman talked about the hearing and the litigation and reiterated his team’s commitment to hold a conventional 34th America’s Cup here in Valencia in 2011, if of course they win the 33rd edition of the event. There have been increasing fears here in Valencia, especially among local politicians, that Larry Ellison, owner of the team, might use some last-minute excuse and take the Cup to San Fransisco, hometown of the Golden Gate Yacht Club.
You can listen to the 6:40 minute interview through the usual media player:
Original post by Valencia Sailing and software by Elliott Back
Excellent forecast ahead in the South Atlantic with Cammas’ maxi-tri already off Recife
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Gitana 13 maxi-cat off Argentina on their New York to San Francisco record attempt
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Argentinian based designer spearheads growth of GP26 class
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Results continue to change on day three of the Rolex Miami OCR
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Gill introduce new range for when the sun comes out
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Through the Doldrums and now upwind, Hugo Boss see the end of their gains on the Barcelona World Race leader
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
First triumph of Groupama 3’s Jules Verne Trophy bid
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Last Thursday Valencia Sailing visited the Alinghi base and talked to Grant Simmer, managing director and design coordinator of the Defender of the 33rd America’s Cup. Our interest was of course the hearing that had taken place in New York 3 days earlier (January 23rd) and more specifically Alinghi’s claim that “multihulls” and “keel yachts” are two incompatible types of vessels. The interview doesn’t of course take into consideration the documents submitted this week. It’s quite long but very interesting.
Valencia Sailing: So far during the legal battle Valencia Sailing has avoided taking any sides and tried to be as objective and neutral as possible. Still, after reading your arguments in the hearing and especially the letter from Jerome Pels (ISAF secretary general), I don’t feel convinced. I even think that Mr Pels writes that the terms “multihull” and “keel yacht” are not contradictory. Is that so?
Grant Simmer: You are wrong and I’ll tell you why. The term keel yacht or keel boat describes a type of sailing boat. Other than a lawyer trying to make an argument in New York, everybody that is involved in sailing knows what a keel yacht is and a multihull isn’t a keel yacht. It’s as simple as that. It’s not to say that a multihull can’t have a keel attached to it or that there might have been some cruising multihulls with keel attached to them but they are not keel yachts. They are vessels that have a small keel. Take for example the pictures GGYC showed, a bunch of cruising catamarans or trimarans with small keels so that they can be beached or so that they can have a tank underneath the hull. This doesn’t make it a keel yacht.
Let me tell you why it’s important. In the old days, when somebody challenged for the America’s Cup, they had to describe the vessel they were going to challenge in. That’s why you have to submit a certificate of the vessel. You tell the Defender, “we are going to challenge you in a vessel that looks like this, a yacht that looks like this”. In the early days, the New York Yacht Club used to say, “you have to tell us exactly the beam of the vessel, the waterline length, what type of boat it is, is it a keel yacht or a centerboard?” Then the NY Yacht Club would either design a boat or pick one out of its fleet in order to race the challenger’s vessel. That’s how it was until we started having classes of boats in the America’s Cup. What they have done is that they haven’t described the vessel at all.
Valencia Sailing: How detailed must this description be according to the Deed of Gift?
Grant Simmer: The reason for providing the certificate is to describe the vessel, not to disguise the vessel. Even last night, Tom Ehman said on the steps of the court, “I promise you the boat will have a keel”. What does this say about the boat that is going to challenge us to win the America’s Cup? What does it tell us?
Valencia Sailing: It tells you it’s going to have a keel. Isn’t that enough?
Grant Simmer: Is it a keel yacht, is it a trimaran, a catamaran, what does this vessel actually look like? Does anybody know?
Valencia Sailing: But isn’t this the challenger’s prerogative? You are asking them to reveal the boat not just describe it.
Grant Simmer: It’s a fundamental issue, a fundamental legal argument. We believe the challenger has to describe its boat in order for the Defender to prepare for the match. So, they have to do that when they present their challenge and give you a ten-month warning. That’s how it works. If that’s not true then the whole argument doesn’t matter. Why submit any certificate at all? Why not just say, “see you in ten months”?
Valencia Sailing: I will come back to my previous question. How detailed must this description be according to the Deed of Gift?
Grant Simmer: If you read our argumentation you’ll see that the person that wrote the Deed actually said, the reason for providing a certificate of vessel is so that the Defender understands the nature and details of the vessel the challenger is proposing to race. If you go back historically and look at it, there is a lot of arguing about how they measure the waterline, whether the boat had the correct waterline length they specified. For instance, SNG will need to measure this boat they will challenge with, to see it complies with the certificate. SNG will have to appoint measurers that will actually measure the boat to see whether it agrees with the certificate. This is what the NY Yacht Club used to do.
Valencia Sailing: Let’s consider again the letter of Jerome Pels. He states that “multihulls” and “keel boats” are indeed incompatible but limits that to the Olympic classes. What we have here is the America’s Cup, not the Olympics. Mr Pels doesn’t explicitly say that these two terms are contradictory in the America’s Cup. In my view he leaves a window wide open.
Grant Simmer: It’s fundamental that when you challenge you describe your vessel and nobody, nobody, describes a multihull as a keel yacht. Why say it’s a keel yacht when you meant to say it’s a multihull, unless you want to be deceptive, you want to deceive the Defender on the details of the boat? Why do you say that your multihull is a keel boat? What’s the point of it?
Valencia Sailing: It could be a multihull with a keel or keels.
Grant Simmer: A keel yacht is a descriptive term. I’ll give you an example. I’m going yacht racing and I have a TP52. I say it’s motor yacht, my TP52 is a motor boat. Would you describe a TP52 as a motor boat? It has a motor, so it’s a motor boat. If you want to enter your TP52 in a regatta, would you ever say, “I’m entering a motor boat”?
Valencia Sailing: The TP52 class is an established one with a well established rule.
Grant Simmer: OK, I’m going in the Sydney Hobart race where you have a whole range of yachts and I pretend I’m entering the race in a motor boat. According to GGYC’s logic I am, because I have a boat that has a motor in it. So, tell me what the difference is. If our interpretation is correct, on why you have to describe your vessel when you put a certificate of vessel, then they haven’t described it, they are purposely trying to be misleading.
Let me tell you something that started their problems. Once SNG tries to measure the vessel, to see whether it complies with the certificate they are going to have some difficult issues, particularly measuring waterline beam.
Valencia Sailing: Why?
Grant Simmer: If you look at the regulations in regard to multihull yachts, the normal description is the beam of the hull.
Valencia Sailing: Do you feel confident now after the hearing?
Grant Simmer: It’s a legal process, it will be ongoing, for sure. That’s the unfortunate situation we are in.
Valencia Sailing: Why didn’t you bring up that issue earlier? GGYC claims you had no doubts about the nature of the yacht.
Grant Simmer: Right now, we have written them a letter saying we can’t accept their challenge because we have a valid challenger which is the CNEV and until we get a court order telling us not to accept the CNEV challenge we don’t have to accept their challenge. At the moment, we still legally have a current challenger.
Valencia Sailing: You are right, but it’s a matter of days before the CNEV is declared an invalid challenger. You will then have to accept their challenge.
Grant Simmer: You are assuming the judge is going to make that order.
Valencia Sailing: I assume it based on his decision last November, I am not making any wild speculation! Assuming his order is not different from his decision, on that particular issue, CNEV has a handful of days left as a valid challenger. You will then have to accept GGYC’s challenge.
Grant Simmer: He might also order that their challenge is invalid as well. One outcome is that he might provide a court order saying that CNEV is not a valid Challenger of Record because of the timing of their annual regatta and GGYC is not the Challenger of Record either because their challenge documents are invalid. That would be a good ruling for us.
Valencia Sailing: What will happen in that case? Will Team Origin be the Challenger of Record?
Grant Simmer: It could be. There is a couple of options. We will then go ahead with a multiple-challenger America’s Cup in 2011, on AC90’s here in Valencia. Same thing to what the 32nd America’s Cup was, with the new rules we created last year.
Valencia Sailing: What will happen if Justice Cahn orders that the CNEV is not a valid challenger but that the GGYC is a valid one?
Grant Simmer: We said last night that we would appeal that decision.
Valencia Sailing: Isn’t this stalling tactics from your side just to gain more time?
Grant Simmer: Not really because the best outcome for us is to get on with a challenger that shares the same vision with us about what the next America’s Cup should be. We will then go ahead and run a regatta, better than what the 32nd America’s Cup was. I don’t think it’s in the interest of the America’s Cup to watch two teams race massive multihulls. I mean it might be interesting technically and visually but the racing wouldn’t be very exciting. I don’t think there is a lot of people thinking this is a good solution for the America’s Cup.
Valencia Sailing: In the meantime, are you going ahead with training onboard the two Extreme 40 catamarans?
Grant Simmer: Obviously, we have to prepare for that. We have to prepare ourselves for a multihull challenge. This is why we bought the Extreme 40’s. This also why the design team has stopped working on the AC90 and started working on multihulls.
Valencia Sailing: You just stated that in the best interest of the America’s Cup the ideal solution would be a regatta very similar to the 32nd edition here in Valencia, with the new rules you wrote last year. Why didn’t you then settle with BMW Oracle early last November when they had dropped most of their initial demands and agreed to the Protocol with slight changes?
Grant Simmer: You have to look a little bit more at the history. Originally they said, “change the Protocol and we’ll enter”. We changed the Protocol but they didn’t enter. Then they said, “change the boat and we’ll enter”. We changed a fundamental feature of the boat and they didn’t enter. Next thing, “change the format of racing and we’ll enter”. We kept clarifying the solution.
Now they have 3 issues still pending. The first one is to hold the race in 2009 and not 2011. They are the only team that kept designing AC90’s, they are the only team that is tank testing, they are the only team with enough money to keep going with all this uncertainty.
The second issue is two-boat testing, they want two-boat testing, and the last one is the format of racing. These are fundamental issues!
Take 2009 versus 2011. We need to raise sponsorship, the event needs to raise sponsorship, so does every other team that wants to compete. At the moment all the other teams are basically stopped because of their legal action. They are the only team that kept going, they are the only team with 40 cars parked in front of the base every day.
The next issue is two-boat testing. Why do they want that? Because it’s bloody expensive and that is the way you can develop these boats, particularly a new class. So if you have the most money, you want two-boat testing for sure.
Finally, they don’t want us to compete with the other challengers in the elimination series, which was fundamental to the documents we presented last summer.
Valencia Sailing: Obviously, but if you allow two-boat testing then there is no need for you to race with the challengers.
Grant Simmer: We offered all the other challengers that. We would have two-boat testing without competing in the series. Either you allow Alinghi two-boat testing and the challengers race themselves or you prohibit two-boat testing but you allow us to race through the semifinals. What you can’t do is prohibit two-boat testing and keep us out of the elimination series. I’m sure BMW Oracle would want that because it would make us completely uncompetitive. The first time we would have raced an AC90 boat would be in the America’s Cup match itself! It’s ridiculous.
Valencia Sailing: If you could miraculously turn back the clock, is there anything you would have done differently since last June?
Grant Simmer: I think we didn’t sell the protocol properly. That was seen badly and was addressed with the changes in the protocol we made in September. The CNEV had stated they would only act in the majority interest of the challengers. When we were in the meetings, Jonh Cutler (technical director of Desafío Español) would only act in the majority of challengers. They weren’t trying to screw the rest of challengers, they were working in the interest of everybody else.
Valencia Sailing: If after all the legal process is through and you finally have to accept a multihull challenge from BMW Oracle when would you rather have the race?
Grant Simmer: Certainly 2009 is the best option for us. We don’t want to race next October but they do since they are a long way ahead. You don’t design and build one of these big boats in an instant. It’s a long process. We believe they are quite well progressed with the construction of the boat which has a keel. We think they are somewhere along the line with construction or they have already built the molds. You have to ask them.
Definitely, they are ahead of us because they started last July. We were in contact with Marc Van Peteghem in July when he told us he was working for another team. There’s only one other team! So, he had to be working for them which he was. We only started working on the design of the multihull in the middle of December. Up until the judgment we were pretty much convinced we were going to win the court case.
Valencia Sailing: So a race in October 2008 is your worst case scenario.
Grant Simmer: No, a race in July 2008 is even worse! The positive side is that the boats are exciting but as I said it’s in nobody’s interest to have an America’s Cup with two teams. That’s why if they are found to be invalid we can move forward and run an event in 2011. In that case they would probably appeal but the appeal could go in the background and I don’t think their case would be very strong.
Original post by Valencia Sailing and software by Elliott Back
Justice Cahn avait clairement précisé la semaine dernière que les documents transmis lundi seraient les derniers reçus en ce qui concerne la non validité du certificat du GGYC…
Original post by Alinghi News and software by Elliott Back
Justice Cahn avait clairement précisé la semaine dernière que les documents transmis lundi seraient les derniers reçus en ce qui concerne la non validité du certificat du GGYC…
Original post by Alinghi News and software by Elliott Back
World championship venues selected until 2011
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Three Swedes to join Nordic crew in Volvo Ocean Race
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Alloy Yachts have just launched their fourth sailing yacht over 50m.
Original post by Jeffrey Davis and software by Elliott Back
Groupama 3 on track for her first record of this circumnavigation
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
The runners and riders for this weekend’s competition
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Competitors at the Miami OCR had to contend with a long postponement due to light winds
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
The Brits who were not selected for the Olympics have won the 470 Worlds - with photos from Richard Langdon
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Four of the six BUSA regions will qualify for places at the Team Racing Finals
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Ingrid Abery shoots the action at the Miami OCR
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Ben Ainslie talks to us about his record fifth Finn Gold Cup win
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
We take a look at some of the many sailing gloves on the market
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
Read how the event panned out and listen to Ainslie talking to Matthew Sheahan
Original post by Jeffrey Davis and software by Elliott Back
Britain’s Ben Ainslie has won the Finn world championship for an incredible 5th time.
Original post by Jeffrey Davis and software by Elliott Back
Next stop the Doldrums for Franck Cammas and his crew
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
News from this year’s Vice-Admiral’s Cup
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
The Miami OCR is underway for the Yngling, Star, Laser, Laser Radial and Paralympic classes
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
La Société Nautique de Genève a soumis hier soir au juge Justice Cahn de la Cour Suprême de New York de nouveaux documents concernant la non validité du défi du GGYC. Lucien Masmejan, principal avocat de la SNG, revient sur le sujet.
Original post by Alinghi News and software by Elliott Back
La Société Nautique de Genève a soumis hier soir au juge Justice Cahn de la Cour Suprême de New York de nouveaux documents concernant la non validité du défi du GGYC. Lucien Masmejan, principal avocat de la SNG, revient sur le sujet.
Original post by Alinghi News and software by Elliott Back
Contracts not to be renewed at the end of March
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
The 470 World Championships are set to finish tomorrow with an exciting medal race
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
The British legend has won yet another Finn Gold Cup
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back
So after some detailed analysis of my first flights there was a few things that just
weren’t right when I launched the new boat. There was a significant amount of slop
in the bottom rudder pintle which meant that the whole rudder could flop around about
4 degrees left to right. That “little” problem led to a significant amount of roll
instability when the boat got up, which can clearly be seen it the first flight video.
However at the time I thought that it was all pilot error!
After a month away over Christmas and having moved to a new house. Saturday presented
less than ideal conditions, for a larger gentleman as myself when it comes to foiling,
especially with an educated guess for the setup (1.5 degrees main foil AOA, rudder
and centreboard set the same, and “about that much” wand.). The light semi-foiling
winds in the river proved challenging for everyone, however I missed the start by
about 1 min as I was one of the last off the beach and couldn’t foil to the line in
time.
With the other’s foiling and me in slow-rider mode, I decided fairly quickly that
I would be home at dusk if I continued at the same rate as everyone else. To that
end, once out of the river and able to foil I decided to get as much air time as possible
and headed straight to Brighton le-sands.
The run to Brighton was pretty much all “air time” landing maybe 3-4 times, and it
really blew me away, just how quick and controllable and quiet the boat was when foiling
in the relatively light conditions.
Best part of all is that nothing broke, so whether permitting next Saturday morning
I can work on setup instead of fixing things, and actually hope to finish a race next
week.
All content copyright Bruce McLeod, reproduciton of content online without permission
is explicitly prohibited. www.teknologika.com/mothblog/.
Thehalyard.info is explicitly infringing on this copyright. (They even display this
notice right on their site, idiots.)
Original post by Bruce McLeod and software by Elliott Back